Perhaps would work for me as well? An entry level Dual from the '70's, a Denon DP-52F (which I still use in my office system) and a Rega P3-24 which I currently use in my main system. ", S arms are usually higher mass, often used with MC cartridges. Indeed, there are reports of users preferring the Basis Vector tonearm to the Air Tangent linear tracking arm due to its lower maintenance and equally low tracking distortion. Straight configurations can be reconfigurable into various sets. Comon' can somebody help before I spend too much for actually nothing. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). I'm only being curious!!! With DVS, it doesn't really matter that much. Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? Some claim the straight arm wears out records more quickly, but is better for DJ scratching, as it holds a groove better. By contrast, some claim S-shaped arms are more prone to skipping but don't wear as hard on the vinyl and produce a cleaner sound. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. by Guest 10 Feb 2008 18:53, Post that is one of the reasons. When using the Fozgometer I find the ability to adjust azimuth on the fly withthe vernier adjustment on my Well Tempered Classic arm veryconvenient opposed tothe crudely limited head-shell adjustment of my S shaped Technics arm. The J and S shape tonearms (need to) use the so called ''lateral, balance'' weight in order to get equal pressure on both horizontal, bearings. I'm fairly new to the TT side of things so if anyone else xam correct me I'd appreciate it. The table you have is decent for sure. PLEASE RECHECK THE WINNERS LIST. there are perfectly straight arms, but they're mostly used for DJ scratching. "In the golden age of vinyl back in the 70s selling at Tech Hifi, Lafayette and Radio Shack I always levitated to tables with straight arms. The table was always jumpy, I know because I used it in college and always had the best luck when it was mounted on a shelf. Clifton. I have not found a good substitute for great bearings and a massive platter. Either can sound very good if matched to the rest and set up properly I believe but personally Ive always had better luck with straight tonearms. The idea behind curved tonearms is to reduce cartridge tracking error. I have also had in my home Music Hall, 5,7, and 9's which are also excellent performers at there respective price points. In a high fidelity arm, the needle will "overhang" the spindle by 1/2" or so. $29.99 $ 29. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not all are created equal in this regard. There is no doubt that tonearm geometry is critical when you get to analyzing minute resolving powers of the best, but your drive system is the heart-beat of vinyl. Hey Jim - I've got a question for you. As far as my phono stage goes I don't think it's a problem. Ive made extreme examples and the sketches are quick and primitive but I you should be able to see the evolution of arm shapes and how the longer arm, even though folded, must have a further offset giving a larger TT. An entry level Dual from the '70's, a Denon DP-52F (which I still use in my office One of my theories is that 20 years ago when I lived in someone's basement during college, perhaps the vinyl picked up some mildew? Keep it locked. by Abandonflip 10 Feb 2008 19:07, Post the rest of arms as pointed prior either curved or with s-shaped tube. Most DJ arms are "underhung" to aid in scratching, whereas straight tonearm with an offset headshell used for accurate audio replay are overhung. But most of the main points were made. By Do you have any suggestions? naglfar, Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. As you guys said. I This design totally reduces the Which other tonearm besides the Continuum Cobra and Copperhead uses a secondary bearing for what would otherwise constitute a unipivot? My order of importance is:1.) Curved vs. straight: 1. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > AK IS19 YEARS OLD, SO WE'RE HAVING A RAFFLE. Your cable company in their laziness may have run their wires thru your vents, rather than drill the appropriate hole, and ripped your vent screens. The tone arm angle is called offset angle It is not whether the arm is straight, J shaped or S shaped which makes the difference. I read Robert Greene's review of the SL1200G in TAS last night. I've got a couple hundred LP's sitting here that I "gave up on" ten years ago because everytime I went to play them, my phono needle either got clogged with lint/dust or some sort of grungy substance. I am planning on upgrading my Rega in the near future. I would not say that straight or S shape is per se the determining factor regarding sound quality. Related question: Has there ever been a curved or "s" shaped unipivot arm? I am sure the VPI and Regas in this price range are the same. Many trials and tests later, Im finally happy to introduce The DHC STR8 ARM for Technic 1200s series. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? Should we watch this space??? Cheers wolster Lets address the floor issue first. An S shape has the advantage of resonance reduction. The shape of the tonearm is important in so far as it affects the torsional rigidity of the tonearm. Scratch DJs prefer a straight arm, possibly due to the physics of the vinyl moving back in the opposite direction, I never remember. Although it is correct to say that an "S" shaped tonearm often facilitates the incorporation of a removable head shell into the design, it is not axiomatic that this would be so. Thanks for the helpful post, YS. With a friend it should not take you very much time. Jake and Wolster - can't a man ask a simple question without everyone speculating about his analog plans! I dont think it makes any difference,its all about the design of the arm. Anyway, if anyone is interested I will try and offer some additional perspective on the matters under discussion to the already excellent points made. My small dilemma is that I want to get a turntable like a Denon or a Kenwood to match my system. The last time I looked,most high end tables come with a straight arm. Damn these threads, now I'm obsessing over my tonearm and set up again. Since the shortest, most efficient line from the bearing to the needle would be a straight line, I could only relate to straight arms. For shielding? The curved or "S" shaped arm always seemed like they did nothing except to add mass. Cleanliness is next to Godliness in trying to extract all the gooves have to offer. I'll be interested in seeing the arm shape explanations that come in here! It is science. The OP was talking about the difference between s-shaped and straight arms, both with a bent (offset) headshell. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:09, Post 130230-6882 Curved and Straight Tonearms Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. Because no torque is being created, the record will be less prone to skipping. Several type of arms here, straight, curved, S, J and others. In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actual shape of the arm wand. Once you have a cartridge mounted, you have established a fixed relationship between the arm/needle and the platter/LP. As some have already noted, s shaped arms tend be higher mass designs. Tonearm, After 30+ years spinning vinyl I do believe MF is right about owning some type of record vacuum cleaning system. Of course, it has an "S" arm on it. Our publication is supported by its audience. The weather has been good right now, but it still seems like a spring project to me. Straight Tone Arm Vs. Curved Tone Arm. On an axe head, the poll is there specifically to act as a counter balance to the bit. Many record players, especially high-end models, offer adjustable tracking pressure that, when set Maybe it is just improvements in materials and engineering mean that S shaped arms are just not necessary any more. http://www.djtutor.com/repairs http://www.djtutor.com/affairsGive your opinion please. A linear tonearm has zero tracking error. Thanks. Discussion in 'Turntables' started by What turntable are you going to get Keith? LOL. All they need is a 1" hole to get through. J and Straight arms mostly use proprietary headshells, or non at I even went out and purchased a new cartridge and needle and still happened. It really doesn't make a difference, but: for a given effective length I like Rega products, but I want to be able to use different cartridges and adjust VTA without using shims. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296. I disassembled the arm and discovered that the yellow earth wire was not connected on the tonearm side and only to the eart stud on the turntable. Like many trends in turntable design, the bends give no appreciable advantage in resonance control. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 16:20, Post As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissionsfrom qualifying purchases from Amazon.com. I own an SL1200GAE and have done so for about a year now. I would not trade an sub $500 table for it. HERE. Try and relocate the wires if you can. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. Then I wet-clean them with the VPI. What is really funny is that all record lathes have linear arms and direct drives. He has made great progress in his recovery. Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > coppercitymt New Member. I think its just wrapped up as a xmas pressie. I plan to use the CARDAS tone arm wire as it is quite affordable. Arms are normally of three different types; straight (I-shaped), J, and S. The head shell is at an angle to the arm axis, the arm pivot. here is some reading for you Keith regarding tracking errors. No worries.we understand. You'll just wish the previous owner had done it for you. Powered by Invision Community. If it is a dirt crawl space you should put a 12" or 16" square cement patio block below it in the dirt. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. Thread starter DJ Insyder; Start date Apr 15, 2001; D. DJ Insyder New member. The angle of the head shell (although parallel to the cartridge in both S and straight arms) has no bearing. It is necessary for the tonearm to have as little flex as possible. June 7, 2010 in General Hi-Fi Discussion. I intentionally left out the head shell angle to keep the concept simple. So it isn't quite so stout as I'd like. Hi David This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. It Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Another marketing gimmick that doesn't produce any discernable difference under real playback conditions. It is the quality of workmanship, bearing and materials that make the difference. then you would love my double s grado signature tonearm. Check your crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable. Linear tracking arms also have their own set of compromises and, if Continuum Audio Labs is any sort of yardstick, their "real world" performance can be matched or bettered by pivoted arms. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? Unfortunately the wiring harness got damaged and I now have to replace it. My apologies. I also own another VPI HW19 fitted with an SME Series III, another "S" shaped arm and have owned this one since 1989. I searched the forums and couldn't find anything regarding tracking and tone arm design. Its OK Keith. Curved configurations in most cases cannot be reconfigured. With those, one gives up correct tracing geometry to get more reliable scratching without the arm skipping. This creates torque on the pivot, and that torque is the reason for anti-skate. Roy Gandy, designer and manufacturer of the game-changing Rega pickup arms,proselytizes that it is a straightwandwhich can be made stiffer than an S-shaped one. Which is way off topic. Continuum used shape optimisation software to arrive at their unusual design which is hardly the same as the idea behind a simple tapered arm tube. I think a straight arm is best, all else being equal. That phrase, "all else being equal", is essential, as a good turntable with an S-shaped arm is much better than a piece of junk table with a straight arm. Mike Thiel and Madeline12 like this. Sorry to disappoint you guys but properties like stiffness depend greatly on type of material, mechanical properties of the material, length to diameter ratio, you can't just say J shape better than straight pipe or vice versa. Our publication is supported by its audience. It would have been easier to have the collet type of connection in straight alignment with the armtube and achieve the required offset angle by bending the tube. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf. Does that have some sort of foil wrapped around the cartridge wires? I doubt he is looking at a vintage separate arm! As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. Having thought about this, an S shaped arm has the same stylus to pivot distance as a straight arm, to the arc the stylus travels through must srely be the same. Then I thought it was entirely based on having detachable headshells that a curved arm would allow to screw on "straight" onto the arm so the cartridge offset would be based on arm geometry while at the same time allowing headshell mounting to be "straight ahead.". Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > I want to update everyone on David's journey. i love the look of straight arms. And the electronics sit against a load bearing wall, so finding good support isn't a problem. I appreciate whatever advice you have to offer. Curved configuration will give you more elbow space to share with someone sitting next to you. But in practice fact of the matter is Ive never had results with S arms like with straight and most quality tables these days use straight probably for good reason. I have a Sota Sapphire TT with a Syrinx PU3 tonearm. Vinyl Record Cleaning Arm - Anti Static Brush for Vinyl Records - Adjustable Record Player Cleaner Arm For Turntables - Anti Static Vinyl Brush w/ Carbon Fiber Center Bristles - LP Record Accessories. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. To save space. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Price: $21,000. What's the official name for those turntables with a curved arm? The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. The wall mounted shelf will help as well. But bent, the pivot can be nearer the platter. I am reminded of the wisdom of Bertrand Russell, "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.". What brf and Lewm said is correct and now add helomech. Since it has been a couple of months, I don't know if you have solved your dust bunny problem, but here's what I do to LP's that habitually offend. 2. Basic physics is at work here. Going from there to the turntable, they attract some dust from the air because of the static the VPI cleaning generates. (Note: there is no apparent damage/mildew on the LP jackets.) I experienced quite a lot of hum even before the wire harness got damaged. Do you edit your mixes after youve finished? Yes, I meant straight up to the headshell. You can tell the two different straight arm types apart very easily by seeing where the stylus lands relative to the spindle. Why is it that most of todays cost no object SOTA arms employ a straight arm tube. I have had both, shoot, I have both now. Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. However, it does mean that the "pull" of the stylus in the groove is now being applied at an angle to the pivot point, instead of directly. www.musicdirect.com has many isolation platforms, but the heavy foot-falls will require more than that. A Rega P5maybe! For LP's I have recently cleaned, I don't need to wet clean them again for awhileI just put 'em on the turntable and dry-brush them with the Hunt. All of these turntables have had straight tonearms. The wire was pulled into the arm tube but stopped halfway to the cartridge end. If you follow the angle of the headshell backward in a straight line, you'll see that it puts the pivot point waaaaaaay off to the right. When your are down there you might also want to do a couple of things: Clean out all wood debris that you can; put down a poly vapor barrier under the entire crawl space that you can reach and leave about a 1-2 foot rim of exposed dirt at the outer inside-edge by the cement block foundation; check your cross vents and make sure they have good screen and wire mesh on them to keep rodents out!!!. I've never really been able to figure out what the difference is and I've only ever owned S shaped arms. I keep one straight one angled. As far as I know there isn't a great difference between a straight, S or J tonearm. If you like the sound of it make sure you are buying 1 or 2 replacement stylii for it as they may become in short supply as Shure has stopped making the Type V MR. Let me know if you have other issues. Also a larger tube is more rigid than a small tube even if they weigh the same (tubes have good rigidity for their mass compared to a solid rod). Cartridge/Phono stage2.) The two bends add rigidity to vibration compared to a straight tube and flexural waves will be attenuated. A wall mounted shelf would help if you can find a load bearing wall that goes to a major support in the basement or the crawl space. I am not sure which of these two TTs is the better of the two. Platter/bearing system3.) I think the best way is to try the Audio Craft AC3000MC / AC4000MC with multiply armtubes of the different shapes. Longer arms more closely approximate a tangent but their higher moving mass involves other compromises such as reduced rigidity. Just bring the arm over to the spindle. My SL1200GAE does have very steady speed, is quiet and all that. November 11, 2009 in Vinyl and Turntables. No one has gone wrong buying a Music Hall product. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not al I have a Thorens TD 160 which has been my main turntable since 1976 with V15-Vmrx cartricge. Hope someone really knows why they designed the "S" shaped tonearm. 3. Any shelf construction tips would be appreciated as I'm an electrician, not a carpenter. Other than less tracking error, any other pros or cons? Because of the extra pivot offset, extra arm length, combined with the angled head shell and extra inertial weight, the angled arm benefits with much less groove angle distortion and, ultimately, smoother sounding music. But in general S and J shaped arms tend to be heavy and straight ones light. Also the number of connections the phono cable has to pass through is important, the less the better. Its more for at home HiFis. I'm looking for a table under $3500, not vintage. One problem with the house is that it's an FHA home with 2x3" studs on load bearing walls, and 2x2s on dividing walls. Straight Arm Wear! It has a Technics style "s" shaped tonearm with belt drive. Unless your system has great recolving power and you are using at least a $1K phono stage from Mr. Fremmer's recommendations, the "s" shape of tone arm may not be the biggest problem. My question was prompted by the TAS review of the Technics SL-1200G in their current issue. I currently use an Exact 2 in my Rega. Straight gives you better tracking (needle stays in groove) at the expense of worse record wear. The shape of the armwand is but one important variable in tonearm design. Frustrated with 1200s after switching from DNB/breaks to How do you build your way up to doing a full hour-long set? Question, how much would i need to psend to make a real upgrade of my current setup, and/or is there another path I need to consider? Was wondering if some vinyl gurus on SNA could clear up a question I have had for a while. Ideally one continuous length from cartridge pins to RCA plugs. I have also had a newer Throens 850 which I think is tremendously quiet, very black backgrounds, in a simple, but well excecuted bearing, heavy platter, good motor with belt drive system. I'm pretty sure they're used for radio but I want to know what the official name for one is. Once you've done a little "dirty work" under the house I think you will be in good shape. Hi Keith In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actua IF YOU JOINED ON JUNE 25TH TO JULY 18TH, GO. As does the Basis Vector. I also own a VPI Prime with straight tube arms (2) and have owned this TT for about 2 years. Hello everyone I'm new to the forum, thank you. Thanks for any input. At your price point, you can consider going a refurbished Sota and start looking for a good condition Graham 2.2 arm or similar. It looks like the OP is looking for a table that comes with an arm included. Type: straightline tracking airbearing arm and turntable Effective arm mass: 10 grams Motor: belt driven, DC, 33/45 rpm Dimensions: 18.7** x 19.7** x 18.26** Weight: 50 lbs. You mentioned a record vacuum cleaning system. I have over 2500 LP's, many of which are at least 20 years old. This little project is not a bad as it sounds and you will only need to do it once. Thanks. More specifically, physics and ultimately, how nice your music sounds. Is this the first floor of your home and do you have a basement or a crawl space? Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? They are different ergonomically, with the GAE easier to setup and to use perhaps appealing to the record collector, the Prime perhaps appealing more to the true audiophile. So, why is it that the majority of modern tonearms are straight? What's the difference between a straight or S shaped tonearm? This tone arm is a big improvement in tracking and anti skating. An overhung straight tonearm on a DJ turntable has a tracking error of between -6 and +17 degrees depending on how far through the record you are, which, compared to other tonearm Then I gave up thinking about it and stuck with straight arms. I upgraded to a McIntosh 6500 integrated amp a couple years ago, but by then I was sick of the skips. I must have been blind or something! After i do the bracing perhaps an isolation platter would do what is needed. But that should be easy to decide with either arm anyway. All the different shapes and designs of arms try to minimize tracking errors across the playing arc. There are so many variables and connections in any one system ( let alone the variables in the LP's) that the I find no real difference between tonearms with fixed headshells or curved arms with detachable headshells , except for the the ultimate question - do you like the sound of the tonearm. Then they play fine, with no noise, no grunge. What turntable are you going to get Keith? Does anybody know where and how I should earth the tone arm? by BLUEPEARLAUDIO 10 Feb 2008 19:16, Post Topic for today: Straight or curved tonearms on turntables? 4.3 out of 5 stars 731. I curremtly have a Rega P3 which I really enjoy for not only it's sonic qualities, but it's utter simplicity. by kitemap 10 Feb 2008 10:01, Post Over lap the runs by that stright tonearms can't be in equilibrium position, becauseone side of the bearings get more pressure than the, The world's largest high-end audio community. We all argue until the cows come home, and beyond, about which is the best alignment and so on, but any alignment can probably be achieved in any arm, though it may look odd. Lathes and turntables are two totally different beasts. by analogous 10 Feb 2008 16:27, Post Hope this helps. (The solder connections at the bottom of the arm to the interlink to the phono stage came adrift). That is one of the biggest improvements in playback quality you can make. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. With a curved arm youbhave to rotate it. Aquateen, Jan 7, 2003 #1. In fact I've spent entirely too much time in there. BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven. Is there a trick to it? The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. 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